May 15, 2003 Thursday

Transcript # 051503cb.260

SECTION: News; International

LENGTH: 1135 words

HEADLINE: Interview With Islam Expert and Book Author Stephen Schwartz

GUESTS: Stephen Schwartz

BYLINE: Greta Van Susteren

BODY:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: I think the bombing makes it clear that Saudi Arabia has a terrorism problem, just like many nations in the world have terrorism problems. And Saudi Arabia must deal with the fact that it has terrorists inside its country. And those terrorists are as much a threat to Saudi Arabia as they are to other nations, perhaps even as much a threat as they are to the United States and to Americans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAN SUSTEREN: Attorney General John Ashcroft making the point loud and clear Saudi Arabia has a terrorism problem, and it is a big threat to Americans. And just tonight, the State Department issued another warning that another terrorist attack may occur in Saudi Arabia in the very near future.

Joining me here in Washington is Stephen Schwartz, author of "The Two Faces of Islam." Stephen, the alert from the State Department tonight particularly chilling to me because I remember the last one actually preceded this bombing. So it's not like, you know, crying wolf. Last time the State Department was right. So tonight we sit with another one.

STEPHEN SCHWARTZ, AUTHOR, "THE TWO FACES OF ISLAM": Well, the problem isn't going to go away. I mean, it's -- Saudi Arabia is a state built on a terrorist ideology, the ideology of Wahhabism, the most extreme form of Islam. The entire population has been indoctrinated in it. The problem is not going to go away in a few days.

VAN SUSTEREN: Well, let me (UNINTELLIGIBLE) You say it's the most extreme -- the government is built on the most extreme form of Islam. Yet our government, this presidential administration and previous ones, has been very -- you know, had said very nice things about Saudi Arabia, saying, you know, that they're improving, they're getting better, fighting terrorism.

SCHWARTZ: What can I say? There's a culture of accommodation that's existed in Washington for 50, 70 years. I mean, there's a cultural accommodation of Saudi Arabia. I think it's essentially based on the oil relationship. There's essentially a refusal to face the facts about Saudi Arabia. I mean, you know, what is it, 19 months have gone by since 9/11. We still haven't even asked the Saudis for the kind of explanation as to why 15 out of 19 of the suicide pilots were Saudi subjects, that we should have asked for.

VAN SUSTEREN: Do we have the answers -- I mean, we don't have the answers for why 15 of 19 in September 11, or at least, you know, I'm not satisfied. You're not satisfied. But going back to the Khobar Towers and that tragedy, a lot of Americans lost their lives -- have we ever gotten answers out of Saudis about who they arrested and what they did with them?

SCHWARTZ: It depends on how we use the word "we." I have answers, and the people I work with, who are Saudi oppositionists, have answers. I would say the U.S. government has -- if they have the answers, has not made them public. The Khobar case was really a pretty outrageous case because the Saudis lied to us all the way through it. They tried to pin it on Iran. Now everybody admits that it was al Qaeda and Usama bin Laden. Their procedures in dealing with it were not transparent. They in no way took the responsibility that we would have expected them to take, given the fact that our people were victims in it.

VAN SUSTEREN: And they wouldn't let our FBI help investigate it, given that our people were victims. So tell me, what was done to the people who were arrested?

SCHWARTZ: To my knowledge, they were arrested and executed without any possibility of finding out anything about the conspiracy at the time. The most interesting thing about Khobar is, as I said, they blamed it on the Iranians. And for a long time, everybody believed that. It's only now that everybody realizes that it was Usama bin Laden and al Qaeda.

VAN SUSTEREN: Why'd they blame it on the Iranians? I mean, was the whole point was to sort of shield Usama bin Laden and the infiltration of al Qaeda in Saudi Arabia?

SCHWARTZ: That's what the Saudi oppositionists say. They say that the intent was to keep the heat off of them. But there's also a game that the Saudis play. The game is, whenever somebody asks questions about them, they say, Well, Iran is worse. Look at Iran. They're the problem. We're not the problem. We're your friends. We have a situation where when the Iranians are mad at us, they tell us they're mad at us. When the Saudis are mad at us, they don't tell us they're mad at us. They tell us they love us.

VAN SUSTEREN: Would you -- If you had any relatives living in Saudi Arabia tonight, tell them to get out and get out fast?

SCHWARTZ: I would never let allow any person that I personally care about to stay in Saudi Arabia, if I could get them out. And I have encouraged Saudi subjects who are close to me and close friends of mine to be extremely careful and to get out and stay out, if they can.

VAN SUSTEREN: Will we ever hold the Saudis' feet to the fire, or is the oil just so tremendous that we won't?

SCHWARTZ: I think, frankly, that what's going to take place is that the crisis in the regime will become acute, and it will be necessary for the United States to act for the good of the relationship and to, in essence, help save the country. Then we will have to, in essence, intervene. We will have to do the right thing by assisting the reform forces and by helping bring some form of transition to democracy to that country. As to whether we're going to hold their feet to the fire, I must say I'm pessimistic.

VAN SUSTEREN: Well, the report from the government was -- in regards to this latest incident with Americans killed, is that they would happier with American justice than Saudi justice, suggesting the Saudis are going to be very harsh this time. Believe it?

SCHWARTZ: Well, if the Saudis are going to be harsh, the first thing they have to do is stop the clerics from getting up in the Friday sermons, like -- Friday being tomorrow, for example -- and preaching the jihad against the world. They have to change the educational system. They have to change what's said in the media. They have to investigate how high in the government the conspiracy goes. I don't think they're going to do any of these things.

VAN SUSTEREN: Sounds like a huge project that's not going to be done overnight, even if there is a sense of willingness. Sounds very serious. Stephen, thank you very much for joining us.

SCHWARTZ: Thank you very much, Greta.

VAN SUSTEREN: Appreciate it. Up next: the Laci and Conner Peterson autopsy report. We'll have the latest on the investigation into Laci Peterson's death. And later, cops recorded the secret conversations between Scott Peterson and his girlfriend, Amber Frey, after his wife disappeared. What did he say, when ON THE RECORD continues.

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